05 The Methodology of Hiring Intentionally - Lorelle Carpenter Sep 30 2021

Tim Curtis: [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome to this edition of the Digital Velocity Podcast. My name is Tim Curtis. I'm the CEO of CohereOne

Erik Martinez: and I'm Erik Martinez, co-owner of Blue Tangerine.

Tim Curtis: We are excited today to welcome a dear friend to the podcast, Lorelle Carpenter. Lorella is a Chief Financial and Strategy Officer for Schneider Saddlery and she has been a colleague and friend in the industry for some time.

So, Lorelle thank you for coming on. This is a real personal pleasure to have you on today.

Lorelle Carpenter: Oh, you're most welcome. Anytime.[00:01:00]

Tim Curtis: Awesome. Well, we know you and we know you quite well. We've had all sorts of social gatherings and professional settings, but why don't you give us a little bit of your background and your journey and how you arrived at Schneider?

Lorelle Carpenter: Sure. So I started off, I went to the University of Connecticut, and right after leaving university I had an internship and my internship was with a catalog company. It was a B2B company called Seton Name Plate at the time. It was a really great experience. I was really glad to have an opportunity to experience direct marketing that early in my career because I think it really fit with me.

That company was also really helpful in launching my career because I also use that company to go to England and explore international for three years. I was on a three-year permit to work there really, really early in my career. Part of the time I worked with some great people and really learned how to direct market.

We were using catalogs. We were using direct mail at that time. I sound really old, but the internet [00:02:00] really wasn't kind of a thing yet, so there wasn't really digital at that time.

Erik Martinez: Did you get to meet the queen?

Lorelle Carpenter: I didn't. I saw the queen.

Erik Martinez: Was that like an official gathering or like just in passing?

Lorelle Carpenter: Well, she would come out every once in a while from Buckingham Palace and sort of wave. I happened to be in London. I was living outside of London, but I happened to be there while she was doing something and I was part of the crowd, but it was a great experience, really great experience. My husband, who was my boyfriend at the time he lived over there with me for a little while and he said, well, this is cool, but I don't really want to live in England for the rest of my life. It doesn't work with my career and what I want to do.

So, we came back to the States and I worked at Day Timers after Seton, which is a calendar company that is kind of gone by the wayside now that there's the iPhone, but it was a great hybrid model at that time. I really learned more about B2C, and I took my B2B background, used that hybrid, learned about [00:03:00] B2C. Then a few years later an opportunity came up to work at Dover Saddlery and to run their marketing.

I'm an equestrian, so that was a great opportunity for me to combine my riding with my work life. It was a wonderful 15 year run at Dover. We tripled the size of that business. We took it public and we took it private. We did lots of really cool things there. We did a store rollout and really blew out the digital side, the e-commerce side of that business as well.

That was fabulous. Then I left there, change of ownership and change of direction. I also wanted to do something different and I went to CohereOne for a year and that was so much fun. So consulted for a year. I had really fun clients, design within reach, positive promotions.

I did a little bit of work for Ross Simons and it was just such a great team and a great time to be involved in that business. Pretty soon I got yanked back into an equestrian world, and came to Schneider Saddlery which is where I am now. Scheider's had reached [00:04:00] sort of a growth plateau and they invited me in to help jumpstart their growth.

So what I've done since being there I've really transitioned the culture. I've turned the top line around in about the first six months, so that put us on a growth trajectory. I've really driven sustained double-digit profit growth since then. So the pandemic this past year has been a boon for that business. Really fabulous, which I'm very thankful for, especially considering that it's not the case for all businesses, but it's been fantastic for Schneider's. So we're doing fantastic and I'm having a really good time there.

Erik Martinez: So let's go back to your equestrian. Did you compete or did you just do that for fun? I don't know anything about horses.

Lorelle Carpenter: Yeah. So I've been riding since I was two years old. My kids actually, the same thing, I had them riding as soon as they could sit up and hang on I was dragging them along behind me out on the trails. So I it's really a big part of my life.

It's really [00:05:00] one of the things that centers me. If I don't spend enough time in the saddle my husband's kinda like, hey, are you okay because I can tell. From a question career standpoint when I was a kid, I was involved in four H and my mom was the leader of the 4H troop or whatever you call it, 4H club.

We as a family, we've bred Arabian horses, so we always had foals around every year. I would train those foals and help my family sell them. I actually competed in the Arabian circuit when I was a kid, went to nationals, and won a national top 10. So I competed pretty substantially when I was a kid, right up until I went to college.

Then, when I first started college, I really wanted a break from that and after six months I had a friend who said, hey, I still need to be with horses. Do you want to join this polo team with me or take polo lessons?

So I was like, sure, why not? It was at University of Connecticut and the polo team is actually [00:06:00] kind of like world renowned there, which, of course, I didn't know at the time. It was super fun. So I made the team and I ended up being a starting player and played through my college career for Yukon.

It was fantastic. We weren't national champions when I was on the team, but the year after, they were national champions for the women's NCAA polo team. So it was amazing. Then after that, I went to England, as I said before. It was my first big job after college.

Living in a country that I didn't really know anybody, so looking for stuff to do and I started catch riding, which is you just go and a farm hires you, or maybe they let you exercise their horses. So I would just go and exercise these steeplechase horses, which it was crazy.

It was really, really fun. I never actually went and competed in the steeplechase cause it was terrifying looking, but it was really fun to retrain horses that had come off of the flat track and teach them how to jump. [00:07:00] So I did that and I also worked for an Irish horse trader who was importing horses from Ireland to England and he was the epitome of an Irish horse trader, if you can imagine that.

It was quite a trip. Now I have three horses in my backyard. My kids were both involved in it pretty heavily and still are. It's just a really important part of my life.

Tim Curtis: You're one of those rare individuals who has the opportunity to marry their vocation with their avocation and that doesn't always come along.

That's always an interesting and fun little story that you can tell about your history because it is so unique and you are really quite blessed to be able to do that, I think.

Lorelle Carpenter: Yeah, I'm really thankful for that.

Tim Curtis: So, kind of pivoting a little bit. I want to start to unpack a little bit of your story and how that impacts you today. I know from your history and certainly know firsthand how you go about from a strategic perspective with your job. You've got this really rich background, not only in the equestrian world, so you [00:08:00] understand the nuances of that industry, but you also marry it with very elaborate data structures and data hierarchy.

You really do a great job of pulling together what we would classify as those analog and digital areas, the offline and the online, and you blend those together to really create some winning strategies. You've turned things around again on another company very quickly.

Why don't you talk a little bit about that. Over the years you have structured your teams a little differently. At Cohere One, we still talk a little bit about how you've approached the business. So kind of along that lines, what does your marketing team look like?

What does that ideal team look like? We're now in this post pandemic world where things are shifting. It's all about direct consumer. Let's get a little insight into where you currently are and what your vision currently is for that.

Lorelle Carpenter: Okay. Well, things are always shifting and so my answer today is probably going to be different than my answer was a year ago and certainly different than it was five years ago, and probably different than it will be next [00:09:00] year. So what we have going on right now at Schneider Saddlery is we actually have a really great team.

I have one person who's really focused on email and promotions. I have another person who's focused on search marketing. She's focused both on SEO and paid, which is a combination that you can either combine or separate, but right now we're combined.

I have one person who's focused on website, so really on the UX and the conversion rate, average order value, and making that experience streamlined. I have a database person in support of all of that's responsible for feeds and making sure that the SQL data is correct and the match back and attribution model processing and all that kind of stuff.

A lot of targeting data that we use is developed there. I have a person who's focused on social, and for us social right now is more organic and it's paid. We've sort of dabbled a little bit in influencer marketing, [00:10:00] but we haven't really done what we need to do there to really explore that area.

That's an area that I think probably would want it to be bolstered and specifically an area that I would imagine would change in the next 12 months. Then we have a creative team. We have photography in-house and we have graphic artists in house as well.

Erik Martinez: Does that team, just talking creative for a second, does that team handle all creative for the brand or are they broken up like, hey, here's the digital part of the creative team and here's the offline part of the creative team. How does that work for you guys?

Lorelle Carpenter: Well, it's a really good question because they are very different skill sets in many ways. The creative team that's in-house it's digital in that it develops content for the website, but it's not digital in that it, it doesn't do HTML and email and a lot of this sort of heavy lifting digital creative that's required. They also handle catalog and we [00:11:00] also have freelancers that help out as well. Our business is seasonal, and so that means our marketing is also somewhat seasonal.

So it ebbs and flows. We need more help in certain parts of the year than we do in others. So we outsource both because we need more digital creative expertise and we find that outsourcing that has been more successful. We also outsource some of our catalog creative because of the seasonal nature of our needs.

Erik Martinez: That's kind of one of the thrusts that we wanted to talk about today. This idea of insourcing and outsourcing in our industry. From what you just said, you have a relatively small team for a decent sized business. Every client I've ever worked with needs some combination of internal and external and the larger they get, the more they start to internalize certain roles and responsibilities.

Can you tell us a little bit about what the decision making processes [00:12:00] for those roles? Are your roles hey, we're the managers, we're the ones kind of come up with strategy and the vision and all that good stuff, and then we outsource the execution or you're doing some pieces in-house, some outhouse?

How does that work for you guys?

Lorelle Carpenter: I think it depends on the part of the business. So, I partner with my internal search person with agencies, and the agency is responsible for some of the extra arms and legs, some of the heavy lifting and labor that goes into managing our search. They also are responsible for some of the strategy, but it's not really black and white.

It's not really all or nothing when it comes to internal and external. For instance, we developed some rules around Google shopping that are really ours and the agency hadn't really seen before. Then we asked them to implement that for us and to help us build upon the [00:13:00] ideas that we had there.

So we like to work with agencies and freelancers just in general as more of a partnership. That collaboration is something that's really important to our culture.

Erik Martinez: So when you talk partnership, everyone talks about partnership, we want our clients to be partners with us.

We want to partner with them, but when the rubber meets the road, at the end of the day, people make that happen. So what are the characteristics of the people that make those partnerships most successful?

Lorelle Carpenter: Well, I guess there's a few things that I would think about there.

I think that it's important to have really clear goals and really clear KPIs that we're aiming for, and that everybody's on the same page about how those are going to be measured and what they need to be. We have a culture of wanting to use technology and wanting to use data to drive our business, and our partners have to be on board with that.

So when we get to things that are a [00:14:00] lot more squishy, they have to be on board with us pushing back and making them less squishy through data and analysis. So I think those were some of the key things. I think there's some interpersonal preferences as well.

We want to work with people that we trust for sure. Trust is a very big and important element for us. Walked into situations where a partner was clearly not trustworthy and I had to end that relationship. That's whether they're doing a great job or not. It's always the right thing to do.

If you can't trust them, you can't work with them. I feel that that's true of external partners, as well as your team who works with you in house. Trust is super important. Personal and interpersonal dynamics are really important.

You want to pair people up properly with an external agency and then the goals need to be aligned. Paid search is sort of a pet peeve of mine in terms of goals, agency [00:15:00] goals. What I would say the pet peeve is that oftentimes agencies, our agreements with them are set up to incent the agency to spend more.

When what the company really needs is to spend less or spend in a really optimized way. A lot of times the agencies they're not game, they're not down for that because they're not incented that way. So when you have a mismatch of incentives like that, that can cause lots of problems. So we try to avoid things that are set up that way from a contractual standpoint.

Tim Curtis: So, let me ask this question, I know you have worked with a number of vendors over the years. We've talked about some of the different vendors and capabilities and we won't bore everybody with the number of questions and number of conversations we've had about that.

From your seat, knowing your perspective on this, how do you define whether or not that partnership is successful and how quickly do you typically know whether or not that partnership is going to be successful?

Lorelle Carpenter: I usually know sometimes it's within 30 days, [00:16:00] but usually within 60 or 90 days, I will know if it's not going to be successful.

Oftentimes promises are made in the beginning and sometimes agencies don't expect that they will have to hit KPIs or be measured really closely, but my ammo is definitely to be really clear about the KPIs and make sure there's agreement to them and then measure them really closely.

If they're not being hit, there's legitimate reasons and things that we can change that allow us to get where we want to go, then that's all good, but the rubber does have to meet the road and if it doesn't, then we make a change.

Erik Martinez: We do paid search at Blue Tangerine, and I can say, as an agency, sometimes you get a little myopic, little too focused on this ROAs or that, and at the end of the day, it's really, really important that we keep that strategic vision going.

Not only for your client, but for your internal team. There's a lot of agencies especially if you're using them and multiple [00:17:00] services, where the SEO teams going off and doing their own thing and the paid search team is going off and doing their own thing and the creative teams going off and doing their own thing.

You need to really have that cohesive unity to make sure you're making progress against your client's goals. That's a really, really good point about making sure the metric of paying on spend. It even drives me crazy. We do it because it's kind of the industry norm, but I tell my team, you need to earn it.

We need to put time in to make sure that we're achieving our client's goals. Are we always successful? No, we're not, but that is the mission that we're on.

Lorelle Carpenter: I would always encourage anybody who's an agency for paid search to find a better model. Let's pay on optimization in some way. Let's create something new. Just because it's the industry standard doesn't mean we have to follow it. It's a point of differentiation to be able to go outside that box and [00:18:00] find another way of aligning with the clients' needs.

Frankly, my needs are pay Google as little as possible to get as much as possible. Google is constantly trying to have us pay more. If you look at the negatives on shopping for stuff it's silly. So effort and focus in that area is not easy.

It's hard and it takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of labor for the agency to work through. We want to incent for that.

Tim Curtis: We're talking about sort of the muscle memory of the compensation model, and I want to shift a little bit more back to a conversation we had just a couple of months ago you and I.

Specifically about not only the mindset within agencies, but the mindset in hiring and some of what we have alluded to before. In this day and age where we're sitting in terms of an experience, people have a different level of experience now coming out and they have different specializations.

Things are much more highly focused. Erik and I have coined a phrase vocational specialists. So they have a [00:19:00] very narrow view in terms of marketing. You've expressed before some of the challenges of finding talent that had the ability to transcend that and understand more than just a channel shift mentality.

You want to talk a little bit about where you think maybe some of the deficiencies are in the hiring process now, and how could a listener be better prepared to step into a role like what you've envisioned before?

Lorelle Carpenter: I remember that conversation that we had actually a month or so ago, and I think I was expressing my frustration that we do have a lot of people in our eCommerce and digital industry who have grown up on the e-commerce side and really have lived off of channel shift, and have felt very, very successful from that channel shift.

It was pretty easy 20 years ago or 15 years ago to make that channel shift happen without really growing the business. We have this whole class [00:20:00] of people in the industry who went through that and they're not necessarily prepared for what happens when it gets harder?

It's gotten harder because the vast majority of that channel shift has shifted. So now it's harder to compete. It's harder to make those same digital channels work. It's harder to open up new digital channels and have them work.

I think that leaves us with is a labor pool who by and large has some level of deficiency in that balance between digital and offline and thinking about what's driving the business holistically, rather than one channel taking over for another channel.

What I have looked for in marketing leaders is some acknowledgement of that and also some understanding of the blending of the two. Some understanding of the attribution model and why one might weight something heavier [00:21:00] than another thing, how each of the digital channels and the offline channels drive new customers, retained customers, reactivated customers differently.

Which of my digital channels is going to actually give me my most acquisition. So I think those are areas that I've seen some deficiencies and it's a little difficult to find people that have all of that. So what I would recommend for people in the marketplace, that are out looking for a job is if you are sort of one sided, you have really good, deep experience in one of those areas or one side of that, find a role that will give you experience with the other side of that, or find a leader that you want to work for that can help you learn the other side of it.

Tim Curtis: In talking about that channel shift, one example of that is there is a very significant link between for example, the offline efforts of let's say a catalog or direct [00:22:00] mail and search that's generated off of that and sort of the ability to untangle what's happening there.

If you take a row as metric, for example, in paid search, and you're not digging deeper to gain an understanding of what could be contributing to that number's inflation, then when you make media mixed decisions and changes that oftentimes, and I can tell you all sorts of horror stories of cascading, unintended effects that occur.

Unless you have that broad view and that understanding of how those leavers have relationships with one another, you can make some very, very detrimental decisions very, very quickly and not be able to understand what caused it. I think that's an example of the type of mentality that you're talking about with the channel shift.

So it's real, you're right. It's real. It's out there. We've had conversations about it, obviously, and having worked at that senior consulting role, what that's like to go into an organization and you see it [00:23:00] replicated time and time and time again, this is not an isolated instance.

This is something that we see all the time. In talking to C-suite, CEO's et cetera, a lot of times they're trying to voice that, but they can't quite articulate themselves. So it's an issue that we do need to bring broader awareness to for the marketing community.

Lorelle Carpenter: Yeah, and I think it's particularly an issue if those folks are on separate teams, because then there's this sort of infighting that can start where, the digital team is separate from the sort of snail mail team for lack of better description, and we are all on the same team and we're all trying to drive the business and grow the business together.

It's really, really important that one side understands the other side and know ideally that they're actually on the same team and work together. That's why the attribution model is so important as one source of truth. I think it's very important to take a holistic view like you've described Tim.

Tim Curtis: Following up on that.[00:24:00] You have to keep on your game, right? So you're now in this role, you've emerged in this role, you've got chief operating officer and now chief strategy officer.

What do you do in terms of whether it's tools, it's books, it's podcasts, whatever. What are you doing as an executive to keep yourself at the top of your game?

Lorelle Carpenter: Well, that's a good question.

From an internal standpoint, and to keep myself on the top of my game for running the business, I really keep my finger on the pulse by relying on KPIs and scorecarding and making sure I understand what's going on. I think it's really important that we hire great talent, and not just skills, but potential.

Take the search marketing as an example, since we've been talking about it, I think it's more important to have that inquisitiveness and the ability to problem solve. Maybe a little bit of experience in one side or the other, SEO or paid, but that stuff's teachable.

You can't teach that inquisitiveness and you can't teach the problem solving [00:25:00] innate ability. So I think hiring great talent with great potential is sort of paramount. Then asking questions constantly and teaching the team to ask questions about everything, of each other, of me, of the world, of their networks I think is, is really, really important.

Obviously getting out of their way and then letting them get on with things and networking to solve problems, and find new opportunities. I reached out to you guys not so long ago, trying to solve a problem for recruiting for my team and got lots of feedback, got lots of ideas, got lots of insight into how to approach that problem differently. I think that is imperative for me to be able to stay on top of what's changing in the world.

Erik Martinez: So actually that brings up a question. You did reach out about that search and you said recently that you've made the hire and the person is now on board, right? Tell us a little bit about that process, from the interviewing process to the [00:26:00] selection process. How did that flow for you? How many candidates did you talk to? Was it a thousand candidates? Was it five candidates? I know it wasn't a thousand, but you get my point. How many resumes did it take for you to go yeah, I want to talk to these people? Then once you started talking to them, what was the criteria that you're using that like hone in on the type of person that you wanted on your team?

Lorelle Carpenter: Well, it's a great question, Erik. Honestly, it took us some time. It really did. We rethought our process multiple times before we made what I believe is the right hire, the perfect hire.

We started off using normal recruiting, not using a recruiter, but going to Indeed, LinkedIn, advertising, and we did not succeed, not even close. So then we went to a recruiter and we talked to a few, we hired one. [00:27:00] That recruiter brought a number of people. We also use a screen that looks at the person's his personality, and we use that as a fit for the role, but we also use it as a fit for the business and for the company and for the fit within the rest of the leadership team.

That combination of a recruiter with that sort of really stringent personality screen was not as successful. It was very difficult. Not for any fault of the recruiter or any fault of the test we were using, it just wasn't a good combination of tools to be using. We interviewed a number of people and we just, we didn't find the right one.

 So, our third attempt was to really be intentional about what we were trying to hire because six months had passed since the beginning of it and we were maybe a little bit confused amongst ourselves what we actually needed and wanted. So we were very, very intentional. We [00:28:00] created a methodology of being intentional about what we wanted the person to be able to accomplish once they arrived, and what our key problems were that they needed to be solving.

Then we went with that. We crafted a job description in an ad, and we went to our networks and we asked everybody we knew, who we respected, to send people our way. Send us people that you would want to hire, not just anybody. Not just put the word out, but who are people that you want to hire and that is how we found the perfect person.

Erik Martinez: That's pretty intriguing. Cause I know you asked me that question and I struggled to come up with any names at all. In fact, I don't think I sent you a name. I know I failed miserably in that process, for some of the reasons you just talked about. I need to know that I would want to hire that person before I refer them onto somebody I trust and respect and say, this is the type of person that you want to hire.

What I find interesting [00:29:00] about your whole process here is the key element seems to be, we had to have clarity on what we want. We have to have clarity on where we're going and how many of us every single day struggle with keeping that clarity of vision about who and what we are and what we want to be to ourselves and to our customers is a critical component.

Not once did you say, you know what, they need to be an expert in digital marketing, which we presume is an assumption. They don't have to be an expert at every single piece of it. It's one of the things I preach to my teams.

You guys do not have to be the experts in every single thing that we do. You need to be knowledgeable though, and have an understanding of how those components work in order for you to collaborate with your teammates and make it better. So I found that very, very, very interesting in terms of your process.

So [00:30:00] now you've got this person on board. What's next? What do the first 90, 120, 180 days look like for this superstar that just joined your team?

Lorelle Carpenter: Well, that's a great question too. So, I've been sort of filling that role since starting with Schneider's. I wear many hats and that was one of the hats.

What I did for onboarding is I wrote up a document trying to summarize each area and what our strategy currently is for that area. The idea is that that person would get up to speed quickly and have a jumping off point. So rather than being a box for them to live within, you got to do exactly what Lorelle wants you to do.

This is more like, here's what we built, so far. There's lots of opportunity in every single one of these areas, but this is where it's at. This is why we did it. This is where we're at. These are the questions that we currently have.

This is our sort of thoughts about where it should probably go, but you gotta add your magic to it now, and help us go above and beyond. So I wrote up that document and [00:31:00] we have a 90 day onboarding plan with KPIs associated with getting up to speed and hitting some goals.

It sounds all very organized and so far it's going great, but I think that it's important to have some write-up of the history, so that you've got some touchpoint. You get thrown in and you do either have to sink or swim and that's still true, but we don't have to push your head down below the water.

We can actually kind of bolster you and push you along for the first 90 days and get you up and running. That's kind of my strategy for onboarding a person in a VP of marketing position.

Erik Martinez: Have you always used that strategy or is this something that has evolved over time to realize I was doing it this way and that wasn't as successful, and now by employing this I'm way more successful getting these people on board my team.

Lorelle Carpenter: It has definitely evolved. I used to do something a little bit less intense and I have actually intensified it [00:32:00] over the years because I felt that it was helpful. I got feedback from the people who I had hired saying that it was really, really helpful.

It's easy to go overboard with that kind of thing. We never have enough time in the day. You got to spend a little time here a little time there and you do have to make sure that the juice is worth the squeeze. We do so many things virtually, one of the things that we've decided a year ago was that we really don't need to hire in Northeast Ohio.

We can hire from anywhere, so we've started doing that. That means that puts us all in a virtual world all the time, which I think is fine. It opens up the opportunity to make sure you get the very best talent, the very best fit for your business, but it also means that you need to give more support when you're onboarding because you're not face-to-face, you're not in the office.

There's no opportunity for chit-chat and for building relationships. That becomes more difficult. Having that support is I think even more important now than it ever has been.

Erik Martinez: So Lorelle if [00:33:00] you had one piece of advice for our listeners today, what would it be?

Lorelle Carpenter: One piece of advice.

Erik Martinez: It could be on any topic you want.

I mean, if you want to talk about riding horseback. That's cool. Whatever topic you want.

Lorelle Carpenter: One piece of advice. Well, I guess my one piece of advice would have to be that the only thing constant in this world is change and you just have to keep learning and you have to surround yourself with people who are going to keep you learning and keep teaching you.

That can come from people that work for you, from people that you work for, from your network, from your friends, from your family. Keep learning. That's my piece of advice.

Erik Martinez: I think that's great advice. I've recently got a new dog and I walk her every day and that is my podcast time, so I just listen and try to pick up one idea a day that I can employ in my business or for my clients.

Tim Curtis: One last question for you, if [00:34:00] somebody wanted to reach out to you, what's the best way to do that?

Lorelle Carpenter: Well, you can hit me up on LinkedIn, for sure. That's probably the best way to converse with me, especially if it's new conversation. We are growing like crazy at Schneider Saddlery and we have a bunch of open positions.

I would love to talk with you if you are an equestrian and you are in any digital business, any part of any digital business. I might not have the perfect role for you right now, but I would love to talk to any equestrian who would be interested in joining our team from anywhere in the United States.

Erik Martinez: Thank you so, so much for all your time and great insights. We really enjoyed having you today on the Digital Velocity Podcast, one of our inaugural episodes. We look forward to maybe having this conversation again in the future.

Tim Curtis: This is Tim Curtis from CohereOne

Erik Martinez: and Erik Martinez from [00:35:00] Blue Tangerine.

Tim Curtis: Thank you for listening to this episode of Digital Velocity.

Please make sure to subscribe, rate and review on your favorite podcast platform and as always be sure to join us next time.