49 Advertising and Marketing Goals That Win-Win-Win - Jacob Baadsgaard Aug 31 2023

Tim Curtis: [00:00:00] Welcome to today's episode of the Digital Velocity Podcast. I'm Tim Curtis from CohereOne.

Erik Martinez: And I'm Erik Martinez from Blue Tangerine.

Tim Curtis: Today we would like to welcome Jacob Baadsgaard from Disruptive Advertising to the show. Jacob is the Founder and CEO of Disruptive Advertising. An entrepreneur at heart, Jake is a relationship first kind of guy that loves learning from other people's life experiences. He actively works to create an environment where people feel seen, heard, and challenged to take the next big step on their life journey career. Jacob, welcome to the show.

Jacob Baadsgard: Thanks for having me guys.

Tim Curtis: Good to have you here. Why don't you start off, give us [00:01:00] maybe just a little brief synopsis of your journey up until now and kind of give our listeners just a little insight into kind of your story.

Jacob Baadsgard: Yeah, you bet. I'll kind of keep it more focused on the Disruptive journey that I've been on in building the agency and getting to where we're at. I'm over a decade into it now, guys, which is kind of hard to believe that it's been that long.

Tim Curtis: You're an adult now, right?

Jacob Baadsgard: Nope. Nope. Don't give me that much credit. I do have a 15-year-old daughter now though, so maybe I should start pretending to be an adult. But my background was actually in web analytics and so I would do implementation and build dashboards and get insights from forever ago. It was called Omniture, and now it's Adobe Analytics.

Tim Curtis: Website story. Yeah.

Jacob Baadsgard: Yeah. If you had asked me if I thought marketing was in my future, it never even crossed my mind. My degree was in information systems and my profession. The hard skill that I developed early in my career, was very data-driven, database, basic coding, but just a lot of data. [00:02:00] How can we use data to drive insights and value for these businesses?

It was through that data and the clients that I would support that I would say, hey, I've connected your CRM, your web analytics, your Google Ads, your Facebook ads. I've connected all these data sources together, and I can tell you like spending money over here, but let me tell you it's not working, and these are the areas where it is working, and I would spend more money there. And that's how I got introduced into digital marketing.

Disruptive has always been known for our PPC management, our social media management, and those types of things. We have a pretty large media budget that we manage for all of our clients, into the hundreds of millions per year, that we're managing for them. That was how I got my intro into that.

When I was working with, at the time, American Express, John Deere, Home Depot, a lot of these larger businesses, and I thought, Goll if these guys have no idea how to do this like no one else is going to. The company that I worked at in college, that provided tech support [00:03:00] services, I thought, you know what? I wonder if I use this as a sandbox account, I wonder if these same principles apply for smaller businesses.

And this was like a 25-person company at the time. And we did the same thing. I integrated all of their data, we got some basic insights, and figured out what was working and what wasn't working. And I did it for free, as a sandbox to help them cuz I cared about the guys and just had developed a relationship while I worked there for a number of years.

And then they said, well, that's great, that's what we need to do, but we don't know how to do that. Can you just like, hop into our account and do that for us? And I'm like, well, I've never done it before, but I guess I'll give it a shot. That's when I kind of connected the dots that a data-driven approach really does remove a lot of the smoke and mirrors of marketing and makes it a lot easier on knowing where to implement that.

And once I saw that it worked well for small businesses, that's where I saw, okay, perfect. This is the opportunity that smaller to medium-sized businesses that isn't going to have the bandwidth or the expertise to do this, [00:04:00] I can build what I actually thought would be an analytics consulting agency, I can help them with that. What I didn't realize is that most small and medium-sized businesses also lacked the bandwidth and expertise to implement the insights that I would provide them. That's actually what took off from a business standpoint.

Went from myself, freelancing on the side to we've got about 125 people in the organization and work with about 220 businesses throughout the country now. That's what we do. Let's make sure we get the right data, so that we can go and see what's working in that customer journey and in those different marketing channels.

And the first five years of the business were, how can we just grow this as much as possible? I'm a little bit more of a solopreneur. I did have two partners very early on that did not last very long, and I've kind of been driving that forward myself as the owner. The first five years was like, what's possible? How big can I make this thing? You know? And maybe if it's big enough and I make enough money, then I'll finally feel like I'm enough on the inside because I still [00:05:00] struggled with a lot of that.

So, the agency got bigger. I made more money, and I actually felt a lot less of enough on the inside. I was actually struggling a lot with my physical, mental, spiritual, emotional health. And that was about five years into the 10-year journey. That's when I realized, okay, well, it looks like it didn't work. If what I really wanted to feel was like enough on the inside, I'm actually getting further away from that when I chase growth for the sake of growth.

That's when I actually realized through some really powerful moments that I actually experienced with my wife and going through marriage counseling together, realized that I'm using Disruptive as like a crutch to say, I'm not the problem anywhere that I'm struggling in my life because the business was going well, so how could I be the problem? Right?

Tim Curtis: Right.

Jacob Baadsgard: It was that epiphany that I had and that experience that helped me to realize what I was most passionate about doing, which was I wanted to create an environment where I and others, clients, and employees in the company, [00:06:00] could have those moments of epiphany of what actually matters to you and why does that matter to you? Now, let's build a marketing strategy around that because that's what's actually going to be a more fulfilling journey to be on. And it may or may not include growing super-fast. It might. It might not, but it'll actually be the thing that we want to get after.

That's where I just kind of learned and realized it's the people behind the businesses, we all just need some help getting to the core of what is it that we're really after? Why are we really after that? Is that what we really want? And if so, now let's reverse engineer a way to get there. The last five years have been more about that.

So, we've actually started limiting the number of clients that we'll work with. We want our growth to come through their growth, but we don't want it to be growth for growth's sake. We want to feel like it's meaningful growth and that it's actually contributing not only to their business success, but to like their life success and fulfillment as well. That's the big picture, and then [00:07:00] here we are today.

Tim Curtis: That's a truly holistic approach cuz you're looking at all aspects of that, you know, in life. Probably a good message for all of us because we are people of habits, have varied interests and we have relationships, we have our mental, our spiritual, our professional health. Maybe we don't look at that enough in consideration of what all that means together. So, that's particularly insightful.

Erik Martinez: I think that's great. One of the hardest things to do all the time is to come from that place of caring, right? Just caring for your clients, caring for your staff, caring for all the people around you, and trying to keep that in balance all the time. But let's take that a step further and let's talk about success. What are the characteristics of your most successful clients that have steady year-over-year tangible success? What are the things that make them more successful than others in your stable of clients in the companies that you've worked with?[00:08:00]

Jacob Baadsgard: The beautiful thing is that they're all unique in their own way and there are definitely some themes that I see across the board. And so, I think we'll start with some of the themes that I see. The three of us, and many of those that will be listening, are very used to the conversation with a business where they say, do more, be better, do more, drive growth. Right? That's the goal. Just grow.

Here is the secret behind a great marketer and a not-great marketer. They feel bought into the why behind the goal. If a marketer understands and feels bought into the why behind the goal, there is no training I can provide that marketer that their natural intelligence that will just shine forth can compensate for. I think being a marketer and frankly being a business owner sucks without that buy-in and that clarity of why that matters to me.

We describe success, one of our core values is win, win, win. It's an extrapolation of the Win-win concept from The 7 [00:09:00] Habits of Highly Effective People. We look at a win for Disruptive, a win for the client, and a win for the employees. So, here are some questions I ask to know where their heart is at with the business. I ask, can you tell me a specific story about a customer that just really benefited from and loves your product or service? And then I hear the story, and there's always a story that is incredibly easy to connect to. They tell me about a customer success story.

And then I ask them to tell me about an employee success story. Tell me about someone in the company, and this could even be yourself, an employee success story. How has your business benefited them? There's inevitably a story that like touches my heart. It's like inspirational to hear what's going on there. Then the third question is, how do your goals as a business align around creating more of those experiences?

And most of the time, in fact, I've never heard anyone answer it almost any other way than this, which is, I've never really thought about it that way [00:10:00] before. But that actually sounds way better cuz that gets me excited to show up and to put my heart into this business, to put my heart into this marketing. Cuz if that's what we're creating are more impactful experiences like you just told me about, we will figure that out. That's where I like to start in terms of what matters most to you and why.

Sometimes if I just start with, what are your goals as a business, and then why is that your goal, it actually starts to feel a little bit contrarian and adversarial in getting to what matters most and why. But when I say give me an experience from a customer and from an employee, and then we're all feeling the energy of the why behind the business, then we ask the question of how do the goals align to that? That's when we actually start to have a very productive conversation around, huh, maybe we should be thinking about this a little bit differently. Because if we grow for growth's sake, we might actually have fewer success stories with our customers and employees. So, that's where I like to start.[00:11:00]

Erik Martinez: I think that's really, really powerful. I'll be honest, I'm going to say I fall into that category of, I haven't really thought about it that way before. I mean, I think I probably have at some point in time, but I think the way you characterized it is pretty incredible. When you have that conversation with the client or a business owner or an executive team, what do you see as the key benefits of aligning those values in terms of a business model, their business objectives, and their marketing strategy?

Jacob Baadsgard: That's the perfect place to go next because inevitably there are always competing interests. So, getting really clear on what matters most and why actually gives us a North Star to lean everything up against. And so, when they say, okay, we want to grow by 50% this year. Great, let's grow by 50% this year. How does that contribute [00:12:00] to creating those experiences that we just described? Okay, well, we didn't really think about it that way. Okay, well let's have a conversation.

So, what happens if we grow at 50%, but your customers and employees are far less satisfied? Are we happy that we grew by 50%? A lot of the times the answer is, well, how can we do both? Awesome. We all want both. No one should ever feel bad for wanting both. I think that's just great, right? Like, we want everything that life has to offer us. What I would say is inevitably moments will come where there will be a conflict and we will have to choose what to prioritize.

So, the most common one is revenue growth versus profitability. Okay? They wanna grow by 50%. They want to do it in a way where they can still meet and exceed customer expectations and employee expectations. And let's just assume 50% feels realistic. Okay? So, the next thing I want to get to is, well, what's the end game for the business? Is it to sell it? Is it cuz you love it? Or you don't know and [00:13:00] you just want to see where this goes?

I'd like to get some clarity on that because that's what helps me understand, okay, if we can hit 50% and it's a win for the customers and the employees, and the business, awesome. What are we working towards? Because that will help me guide the conversation around, hey, when we run into a conflict, I'm not looking to sell this yet. I'm not raising any money. We're kind of funding this through the business itself. Most of the time, those types of businesses, when push comes to shove, they'll actually lean a little bit more towards profitability than they will revenue growth. Okay.

And it's good to get on the same page with that upfront because then we can actually manage each other's expectations. And if we don't hit the 50% growth goal, but we were able to maintain, hey, we hit 40%, but we maintain margin where it needs to be for you and the company to feel good about where things are at. Well, now it feels like, hey, we actually feel aligned, and we feel good about that.

If I just raised a bunch of money and I'm looking to scale this, well, that could be the complete opposite, right? Like, getting 50% growth needs to happen even if we get less [00:14:00] profitable along the way. Sometimes that actually might make sense if we're trying to make up market share or those types of things as well.

What I try to understand is what are the experiences that you're providing to your customers and employees that you want to repeat? How does that align to your goals? Because your goals matter as a business too. That's the win, win, win, right? The company, the employee, and the customer. Now we feel good about, we've set the right goals. Now we've actually identified when push comes to shove, what we're going to prioritize. Is that the revenue growth, is that the profitability? Whatever that might be.

That makes a really big difference cuz now when I reverse engineer the marketing strategy, if I know that it's revenue growth at all costs, then I might think a little bit more, we can be more aggressive in testing and seeing what works and what doesn't work, right? When we think, now, we gotta also be in that constraint of margin and making sure that that's in a healthy spot, I might go from being aggressive with 50% of the budget to being aggressive with 10 to 20% of the budget in that marketing strategy to see where we need to go.[00:15:00]

So now, we've kind of got the big picture dialed in, in terms of we understand the magic behind your business, and understanding that about your employees and customers sets us up as marketers to be successful. We now know what the goal is and why, and we understand the impact that that's going to drive. We feel excited about providing this for you. Now we simply reverse engineer to that number of what is it going to take in order to accomplish that goal.

That gets put into a plan. This is the goal. These are the actions that we feel like give us the best probability of achieving the goal. And no one bats a thousand in this stuff, so some of it's going to work and some of it's not. We're going to report back on how that's going, the progress that we're making, areas where we're exceeding or coming behind expectations. And that's where it gets pretty exciting.

Now we've got the goals, the why. We've reverse engineered a strategy. Then there's just two other elements that I see businesses that are consistently successful with, and that is the creative strategy in terms of now that we understand the target customer [00:16:00] and we understand the marketing strategy, what is the journey we are going to provide to that customer from first awareness through to a purchase or even a repeat purchase, and do we have the creative assets needed to provide that experience along the way? That's the creative strategy.

And then the third component is the data and measurement strategy, which is this all sounds great. Now how are we going to measure that customer journey experience, so that we know where the leaks in the bucket exist? Is that at the high awareness level? Is that in the checkout process? We need to understand where the leaks are happening, and we need a clear way to measure things and report back so that we know where we're at.

And when I see a business go through those stages of we've got clearly translated business goals into marketing goals, the right creative and data measurement strategy, those are the businesses that just win consistently. They just win consistently when they approach it that way.

Tim Curtis: I love the initial example [00:17:00] that you used when you're talking about that top-line revenue growth and the profitability. I think you used the word contrarian earlier to describe it can come across contrarian in that refining part of the conversation. Because that is easily the most consistent thing that you run into is that topline growth versus bottom line. Again, a lot of it is determined on where the business is.

If they're looking for an exit, for example, they may very well be pushing hard on that top line. In some cases, they may push on the bottom line if a deal's structured a certain way. You have your process locked in to identify and have the conversation when you're noticing that a compromise may be in order, that we're stating two things that may potentially be in conflict. You may not be able to achieve revenue and profitability. Oftentimes you can't. They're two different strategies.

So, you're effectively sort of engaging in that conversation. You're holding to the discipline of refining those conversations down further to get [00:18:00] clarity. It feels like when you're in front of clients or you're having those conversations when the client brings those situations, most of the time they have not distilled down enough to those real finer points of clarifying what the business goals are and translating that into a marketing strategy.

That to me was a really good statement that you made because from that, you're right, the creative strategy comes out. The analytics aspect of, you know, how do we determine success? How do we identify the leaky bucket in the process? All of that makes perfect sense.

My question is, when you're in a client engagement, is that an iterative process? The first time you do it, you may get 60% towards that goal. You may hit the goal, but in many cases, it may be iterative, right? There's some assumptions that were made that maybe weren't accurate, where the client had some insights that maybe didn't align with the customer's behavior.

So, when you're in those iterative processes, do you go back and do you walk right back through that entire process again in order to [00:19:00] say, let's really dial down, we're seeing a leaky bucket here, and then you basically take another run at those assumptions and continue that iterative process? What does that look like? I'm curious what that looks like.

Jacob Baadsgard: Yeah. Well, what you're describing, there's like the second law of thermodynamics, which says, anything left alone will actually deteriorate over time, at least in the physical world that we're in. What you've just described is absolutely normal of aligned to the North Star, build a strategy, and it didn't go the way we thought it was going to go. The temptation every single time, and I've done this plenty of times, I'm coming from a place of experience, not from a place of superiority, is do more better. Just start doing anything and everything you can to try and make things better.

Once that happens, and that's the temptation at the beginning, that's the temptation along the way, is to fall back into the do more, do better. Okay, let's remind ourselves what we're trying to accomplish and [00:20:00] why, what matters most and why, and why we thought this strategy was going to work. And if we don't come back to that every time, it will deteriorate into, and this is what most marketers don't like about their jobs and what most owners don't like about marketers, is they become yes people and do more and do better people. And that's where things just fall into total chaos. Sometimes you get lucky and that works, but it feels stressful the whole time when you're operating that way.

That's where I just come back to and say, yeah, you're going to run into those all the time. That's actually what makes marketing fun. If it worked every single time, every time you tried something, I think we'd all be surprised how boring that got and how fast that got boring, right? It's actually the fun part of marketing. It didn't all work the way I expected. Now I got to learn something new and figure something else out.

Let's lean back to all of these principles where we started and let's always come back to that every time, we don't feel like things are working. Because if a true change needs to happen, it actually needs to happen at that level. [00:21:00] What's the goal? Why is that the goal? That's where the change really needs to happen. Everything else is just iterating and testing against that to see what helps us accomplish that.

The opposite of everything I said, the companies that are rarely successful, and if they are, they got lucky and it doesn't last that long, do it the exact opposite. I want to grow by 50%, but I don't want to change my marketing budget. Just do more, be better. I won't work with businesses like that anymore if we can't find alignment on that because it doesn't work.

You want to double, but you don't want to change your marketing budget. The three of us have had plenty of those conversations, right? It doesn't work. There's no why. Now we just scramble and try things and hope it works. That just rarely leads to a fulfilling experience or outcome in those scenarios. So yeah, just always come back to those basics and then branch out from there. Don't turn into the yes person to do more, be better and just start doing anything and everything and going crazy with it cuz it doesn't work, it's super stressful, and it doesn't align back to what matters most.

Tim Curtis: Right. [00:22:00] So, as you're going through that, again, we're talking about this iterative process. You're aligning the business model that they may be operating in, I'm certain there's all sorts of variations you're dealing with and that marketing strategy. As the client business continues to go through that, what are the benefits you're seeing coming out of that client? Is this having a larger effect on the client?

In other words, they're beginning to think a little bit differently about business conversations, but setting business strategy. If you have examples of that, of how, in your work with those clients, it's not just your interaction with the business that's great, but the business is actually thinking differently. Are they turning into those businesses that you know, are those few percent that win?

Jacob Baadsgard: Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes not. I think it ultimately ends up becoming a decision of are they going to operate from abundance and clarity or fear and scarcity in those moments. Here's the conversations where rubber hits the road, and a lot of people struggle to have these conversations. So, if it's the owner of the business and we find alignment, it almost always [00:23:00] works out very well.

The challenge is sometimes the marketer or the head of sales or the whatever, actually isn't willing to go have the hard conversation to say what you're asking for does not align with what matters most, and it's an unreasonable expectation. We are setting ourselves up to fail if we do that. Most people aren't willing to have that conversation, and that's where things start to deteriorate.

Now there's a productive and positive way to have that conversation. It doesn't need to be pointing fingers or being mean about it or whatever, but that's where a lot of people struggle to do that. Once I see it adopted, I really think everyone can influence that, but if the ultimate decision-makers are bought into that, that's where it ultimately wins. Depending on the size of the business, but that's usually going to be the owner or the executive team feeling like, whoa, we're on the same page and we know where we want to go and why we want to go there. I don't see very many of those not work out. How many successfully make the transition into that thought process which is I think more of what your question was specifically?

Tim Curtis: That's more the nexus of what I'm asking, right?

Jacob Baadsgard: I would [00:24:00] say most do not.

Tim Curtis: Those internal cultures that's too much of a leap for them to do that? What's your observation?

Jacob Baadsgard: Well, I'll use myself as the example. For the first five years, growth is what mattered most, and it isn't until you experience something that you know whether you actually want it or not. Yeah. I wouldn't even call it a judgment. Sometimes a business needs to feel enough pain to realize they don't want that pain anymore. That's what we're here for, right? Like, life is about experience. And so when someone's not ready to do that, I say, oh, you're still on the part of your journey where you really want to chase this as hard as you can, as fast as you can. And there's nothing unworthy about that.

Every entrepreneur in business goes through that stage. It's a beautiful part of the stage, but there will come a moment where they say, oh, I realized I was trying to be enough, and I thought that's what would get me there. That was my experience, right? It didn't actually get me where I thought I wanted to go. So, that moment will happen. When we work with a business, we [00:25:00] hope that we can help them see that.

And the businesses that we are the most successful with we feel like strategic partners with each other where we are aligned on that. When businesses come to us and say, it's all about growth and it's all about this, and do more, be better. You know, it's kind of like, we're really excited for you to work through this stage of the journey and after you have, reach back out to us.

Tim Curtis: That's a great way to say it.

Erik Martinez: You're living up to your values, right? at the end of the day, that's what you're saying is you're living up to your values. We're working with businesses who are willing to transform to the next stage in their journey. That's really cool. I want to go back for a moment to business model. And only from the standpoint that, you know, when we were talking in pre-show, I really believe that there's lots of different business models, particularly in entrepreneurial-led organizations. I think the entrepreneurs are just creating things and I don't necessarily understand their own business model, right?

So, when [00:26:00] you're talking about aligning goals and marketing strategy and business model in that type of environment because it's dynamic and it's kind of frenetic when those businesses are in those stages, how do you help guide them out of that or guide them through that process? You know, the owner may be saying to you, hey, you know what? I know things are kind of frenetic, and we want to transform our business. That seems like a key indicator, like okay, they're at least open to the idea. How do you guide them through that process?

Jacob Baadsgard: I think there's two things. If I'm like consulting or mentoring a business owner, which I do from time to time, it's very different than how we show up as an agency to support them in their goals. From a high-level standpoint, I actually feel like a beautiful methodology that has been developed is that we use ourselves as the Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOS, the book, Traction. And that's where you can really integrate that visionary [00:27:00] mindset with a complimentary integrator that can operationalize and execute against that vision.

That's not our core competency as an agency is to help them bridge that gap, but we do introduce them to these principles. But ultimately, they have to own that kind of at the ownership and executive team level to want to explore and adopt and iterate on that type of a methodology. They refer to it as the Vision Traction Organizer, the VTO.

Everything I've described actually, I've just got a simple format to get it all put down. And then everyone kind of knows what the North Star is, what we're working to accomplish, why that matters. So, that's what I would recommend and regularly recommend to our clients, which I've found is pretty successful for those smaller to mid-sized businesses that we work with. They're like, whoa, this is great.

The larger businesses, some of the more national brands that we work with, it doesn't feel like we actually have really much impact at all from that standpoint. That's probably more just the reality of it. And the larger the businesses, generally, the less open they are [00:28:00] to that feedback. Usually, in more that small to emerging into a mid-sized business, they're still pretty open to that because they've been experiencing the chaos for long enough that they're ready for something new. That's the direction I point people to when it's an entrepreneur-led, visionary minded-led organization that's a little chaotic all the time. Which by the way, I'm in that category. So, I have a lot of love and respect for those people.

Erik Martinez: I think I fit in that category too.

Tim Curtis: Can we just take a moment to collectively sing the praises of the EOS model? That visionary integrator model, it names things that need to be named. It helps bring clarity. It brings up a system of same-page kind of activities and really brings into alignment the best of the vision with the best of the execution. The audience can't see this, but I'm holding up Rocket Fuel which is what myself and my integrator live with. It's our guide. You know, it's our guide for the trust and fidelity that we've developed, and it's a part of that [00:29:00] process.

Like you, that's become a point of contact with clients to say, here's how we're living this out, right? This is our every day. And no, we're not EOS implementers. Don't really have any desire to be so, but it's a fantastic business framework that can be very, very insightful in helping you to set up something on your own. So, yeah, I should have guessed.

Erik Martinez: And we have talked about this multiple times, right, with multiple guests over time. A constant theme in those successful clients are using some kind of framework and EOS is just one of many, but it is a very, very powerful framework. I know our team, we've been kind of dabbling with pieces of it, right? We haven't fully embraced it, but we're starting to. We're starting to bring some of those things, and it does really help bring the organization together and align. As you like to say, Jacob, it's aligning all the key things and focusing on why something matters. [00:30:00] Jacob, as we kind of move to close here, what additional advice would you like to leave the audience with? What other particular insights might cue them up and fire them up to do something, take that next step?

Jacob Baadsgard: I'll take it from the standpoint of what has inspired and supported me on the journey, because ultimately, advice can imply that I might know better what you need than you know for yourself, and I actually don't believe that to be true. But I will say that there's two things that I have found that have made a tremendous impact for myself personally and for my business as well. I'll refer to one as a business owner, entrepreneur, and then the other one is as a marketer.

With the business, one of our core values is win, win, win, and I mentioned that earlier. If I can't see how our employees, our clients, and the business all win from this, I will not do it. I do believe that that is the ultimate balancer for me. Because if I get greedy and want to [00:31:00] start over prioritizing the company financial success over my customers and my employees, it is not sustainable. If I over-service my clients at the detriment of my employees, that is not sustainable. If I over-cater to my employees, but we don't deliver good results or profitability for the business that is not sustainable. The equalizer, the balancer, the thing that I lean back on is, can I clearly see how this decision contributes to a win, win, win?

And then as a marketer, the only thing I would say is don't give up until you feel bought into the why of what you're working on because you will unleash. That's where I feel like it just flows effortlessly. Great things happen, and until I feel that connection to the why behind it, there is no tactic that ultimately compensates for that in the end in a way that I find satisfying. Those are the two things. Don't give up on [00:32:00] connecting to the why or having the courage to go find that why somewhere else if it's not where you're at. And then seek the win, win, win. And I feel like that will help keep things balanced on the path forward.

Erik Martinez: I think that's actually great advice, and I don't think that you know anything anybody else doesn't. When I advise my clients, I always say, Hey look, this is from my perspective. You have more knowledge about your business and your priorities and your goals and the intricacies of your organization than I do. I can just provide help, provide some context, some things that we see that work. So, I think that's hugely important. So Jacob, if somebody wants to reach out and learn a little more about you or Disruptive, what's the best way to reach you?

Jacob Baadsgard: Yeah. Personally, I'm the most active on LinkedIn, so hit me up there. Jacob Baadsgaard. There's four A's in my last name. I'm not aware of another one, so I think you'll find me pretty easily. And then if you're interested in learning more about the agency, just go to disruptiveadvertising.com.[00:33:00] We aren't a fit for most businesses or looking to overall increase the number of accounts that we're working on, but we do provide anyone that reaches out to us an insight about your campaigns, your industry, and your customer journey. And so there's something that we can provide from a value standpoint if you just want to get some visibility on what you're currently doing from a marketing standpoint to provide some value and insights for you.

Erik Martinez: Awesome. Awesome. Well, Jacob, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I think this was a really incredibly powerful discussion. I know I'm going to go back and listen and write down some notes. I think our audience will as well. Well, that's it for today's episode of the Digital Velocity Podcast. I'm Erik Martinez from Blue Tangerine.

Tim Curtis: And I'm Tim Curtis from CohereOne.

Erik Martinez: Have a great day, folks. [00:34:00]